Bye (for now)
Created on: September 22nd, 2007
See comments. I'm done making sites for the time being. But don't worry, I'll still be around voting and commenting, so you won't be completely deprived of my wit and charm.
Sponsorships:
| user | amount | user | amount |
|---|---|---|---|
| No one has sponsored this site ( ._.) | |||
| Sponsor this site! | Total: $0.00 | Active: $0.00 | |
Vote metrics:
| rating | total votes | favorites | comments |
|---|---|---|---|
| (3.3) | 154 | 9 | 100 |
View metrics:
| today | yesterday | this week | this month | all time |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 6,938 |
Inbound links:
| views | url |
|---|---|
| 56 | https://www.bing.com |
| 4 | http://www.google.com.hk |
| 3 | http://216.18.188.175:80 |
| 1 | http://zverocity.ru |
| 1 | https://www.google.com/ |
Recently I've become incredibly frustrated with the complete lack of support for content-creating users, both featured and non-featured. The longer ytmnd goes without a functioning moderation system, the easier it'll be for individuals with alt accounts to hold the voting system hostage. Meanwhile, Max's apathy seems to be endless. He announced a sweeping new moderation system six months ago, but nothing ever happened. (cont'd)
He keeps complaining about how awful most ytmnds are, which to me seems about the equivalent of not watering your houseplants and then getting upset when they die. Why should I bother putting in the work trying to create a well-made site, when a single downvoter with 50 alt accounts can completely undo my hours of hard work? You can only take that so many times before you decide it's not worth the effort anymore.
So, if and when a real moderation system is put in place, I'll start making sites again. But probably not before. I hope that happens soon. I'm sure some of you will accuse me of being petulant (though probably not in those words), and I'm sure I'll get plenty of "You're a featured user, you have no right to complain" responses. Frankly I really don't care what you think, but the fact is, if that's what you think, you're wrong. I'd gladly trade my featured status for an even playing field that is moderated properly. I can only take working within a broken system so long.
This is a sad day indeed, you were one of my favorites. Whatever ratings he may have gotten, due to name recognition or whatever the reason, is irrelevant. It doesn't take low ratings to know that this system is f*cked. I can't sit by and be happy with my featured status and my high ratings and all that sh*t when other people are getting raped. It really just boils down to recognizing the seriously disturbing amount of power that is readily available to be wielded by a single idiot user.
Yup, all this place really needs is to have moderators who can actually moderate. We don't need pointless new features like a +|- comment voter. Super mods have the ability to locate all the alts, but what's the point when nothing is done with them? Wingerding was outed earlier this year with 20+ alts and nothing was ever done about it.
And if someone smashes up my car, I guess I shouldn't bother trying to catch the guy, just buy a new car, right? Besides, you and I both know you get downvoted for resubmitting, since resubmitting is a bigger crime than alt-voting nowadays. I mean, look at fourest. Say what you will about what he's done in the past, clearly he deserves most of the grief people give him. But his last site was alt-downvoted, he deleted it with plans to resubmit, and then Kassius swoops in and submits it first, (cont'd)
...and everybody got a good laugh out of it, because hey, it's fourest, what goes around comes around. But that's horsesh*t, just because he broke the rules in the past, doesn't mean the rules don't have to be followed when it comes to his sites. It seems Max has the policy of "You guys police yourselves", but clearly people aren't capable of that without being vindictive and spiteful.
If fourest was banned tomorrow, I wouldn't shed a tear. I'm not saying he didn't deserve it. But because he deserves do be alt-downvoted, doesn't give a person permission to alt-downvote him. The rules need to be enforced, in all directions. Besides, in the old days if someone was caught using alts, someone would point that out in the comments, and then people would vote accordingly. It used to be that you showed your disapproval of alts by giving a low vote yourself.
But the truth is, people ARE alt-downvoting him, trying to offset his alt-upvoting, as if that justifies their actions. All that's doing is adding to the problem, by creating a scenario where alt-voting is acceptable, it starts down a slippery slope where ALL alt-voting is acceptable. We're already well down that slope, in fact. I am protesting people like fourest, but I'm also protesting the kinds of people who use alt-voting against fourest in retaliation. None of it is justified.
And so, it was a frightful and sorrowful Sunday, when Necronomicon walked away from YTMND and said no more. It was this Sept. 23, 2007 that YTMND spun into darkness as the pink names slowly one by one followed the first and disappeared from the front page, never to make content to be enjoyed by another, ever again...
Besides, GucheHair has already registered new accounts, because he knows the moderation around here is sh*t and he can get away with murder. Me leaving has very little to do with GucheHair, he's only a symptom of the larger problem, which is Max's refusal to properly and consistently moderate this place. In fact, the only reason Max was spurred into action last night was because tonydanzalol made a fool out of him.
I've been incredibly frustrated with the complete lack of support for content-creating users, both featured and non-featured. he longer ytmnd goes without a functioning moderation system, the easier it'll be for individuals with alt accounts to hold the voting system hostage. And, without a functioning voting system, it will be impossible to support content creators financially for their submissions. However, since there is not and never will be a financial reimbursement system...
"Why should I bother putting in the work trying to create a well-made site, when a single downvoter with 50 alt accounts can completely undo my hours of hard work?" If you can answer ""Why should I bother putting in the work trying to create a well-made site?" then you have the answer for both questions. Also, donvoters can't "undo" your hours of hard work. They can undermine the voting system, but that's just a popular sorting tool. And, if you're aiming for popularity, you shouldn't make sites anyways.
This is all dependent on what you quantify as worthy of "hours of hard work". Does putting "hours of hard work" into something neccesitate thousands of views and countless handjob comments? If you just want to make good quality gif animations and stuff, then you do it for the fun. Ive got a few alts where I make stuff that took hours+ but its not the end of the world for it to be unseen. The tragic is this sh.itty community, and infinite amount of dips.hits with no sense.
I mean look, it's not an issue of demanding everyone like my stuff, if you don't like a site I made, that's your opinion, vote whatever you want. But don't vote a few dozen times. The fact that alt accounts have become borderline-acceptable is really upsetting. I mean look at DTMB Kombat on the frontpage, it was clearly alt-upvotes by LePape, and literally nobody gave a sh*t.
That's f*cking BS. Name 1 alt I used to upvote one of my sites.
There's dozens of sites I've seen in top viewed/rated thinking "wtf is that doing here", but I never accused anyone of upvoting with alts, that's ridiculous and it doesn't work like that. I mean, if people like it, fine.
The truth is, sometimes the sites you put the most efforts into will get downvoted, and sometimes the sites you think will suck *ss will get popular, you never know but thats how it is.
True, but you should have noticed the rating given by that alt.
The only time I would argue upvoting with alts is ok would be the few minutes after the site has been posted. In Recently Created, even the greatest site ever can die right away if it gets 1'd by a few downvoters (and hopefully they have only one account) and then noone watches it.
So that's what I do to counter one of those flaws you're talking about. Then after it gets voted on 20-30 times, I just midvote/erase that vote, that's all.
lepape that's a lame unfair advantage and taken to an extreme (say.. 26 alts, like fourest?) it will boost your site to top rated considering people generally 5 anything that has a lot of votes and a high rating already. good examples of that trend include davetherave forcing a lot of mediocre sites into top rated of the week. it's just no good
Many alts will give an unfair advantage to anyone, esp if taken to an extreme.
Still, any site that truly suck won't last long, no matter how many alts the creator has to upvote himself. Saying people will upvote anything that's popular is non-sence imo. Some people will vote 1 on anything that has high rating simply because it has high rating.
I agree it's frustrating to spend a few hours making a site, then seeing it out of existence 5 minutes later with 5 votes and 40 views because it got downvoted by people who didnt watch it. Some would repost their site a bunch of times until they get lucky, imo using 1 alt to compensate for the early random downvotes (then erasing that vote once the site gets about 20 votes) only helps your owns odds at getting a bare minimum ammount of views.
Not a chance. It's true that the random downvotes during a site's birth is a serious problem. The point that the recently created system is inherently flawed, shall be noted by anyone paying attention here. However, by your logic here, one might as well abolish the recently created list altogether and have every site go straight into Up and Coming. Cause that's what would happen if everybody thought it was okay to use alts to upvote their own sh*t.
If it were up to me, I'd do away with the featured users list as it exists now, and change it to a "featured sites" list, where featured users can "nominate" overlooked sites -- by featured and non-featured users alike -- that maybe missed the Up and Coming list unfairly. To save those sites that slipped through the cracks. Almost like a second level of voting, one that doesn't affect the site's rating, but will get it some extra views. The featured list as it exists now is far too exclusionary.
A feature that could solve that problem (part of it at least) would be if every new site started with 1 vote right away, that score being be the creator's average rating. If users who made decent sites in the past had an auto-upvote on their new sites, and if those who keeps making crap had an auto1,5 on their new NOISEPOLANDKHANNEDM ytmnds, alts wouldn't be nearly as common.
I come here often, browsing, often searching for keywords, and I really don't care much about votes. Sure, one clicks a few time on stuff on the front page, but actually I only rarely see a connection between the amount of stars a site gets and its impact on me personally.
What I'm trying to say: Imo this voting-system is uninteresting. I think it's about that important than IMDb's top250.
But heck, I'm not a regular, just a regular lurker.
That's a damn shame, Necro. I've enjoyed a lot of your sites (probably a majority? I don't have a tally in front of me). For what it's worth, I make it a point to check out the profiles of people whose sites I enjoy. Admittedly, I undoubtedly still miss out on some good sites that I might have seen if it wasn't for the downvoters, but I still get to see some I might have otherwised missed. In any case, I hope you're back in production soon.
You need to stop being such a votewhore. If you think that you are less of a person than Paris Hilton because less people have seen your body *ahem* of work and reacted *ahem* favorably, then you're an awful person. If not, then quit your bitching. There is more to life than the ytmnd ratings. In fact, all of life is outside the realm of ytmnd ratings. Make sites to make sites, not to be important. All you can attain at ytmnd is irrelevance.
Congrats on missing the whole point, Korf. It's not about good rating or bad ratings, it's about equitable ratings. If one of my sites legitimately got bad ratings (which happened frequently enough), it never bothered me one bit. But when a site that otherwise was well recieved gets vote-bombed by a single person who's decided he knows better than the group, and then nothing is done about it, that's what bothers me. If you want to call that votewhoring, then fine. Call it whatever you want.
My sites get legitimately and illegitimately bad ratings. As long as it's ytmnds and not kids, my life is unaffected. The ratings system is a method of ranking sites. It's not the Bible and it's not the reward. It's not for you, at all. It's for people to potentially view sites, and it is only one factor. See: most voted, top viewed, top rated today, OTHER such as TELLING PEOPLE which is the only way a site will really get exposure. If you think your site is worthy of viewers, go find them. Watch them run.
"And if someone smashes up my car, I guess I shouldn't bother trying to catch the guy, just buy a new car, right?" If someone spits on the glass cage that surrounds the Mona Lisa, I guess Leonardo shouldn't bother bitching about the guy and just paint a new painting, right?" The painting and the site are untouched. Quit your bitching.
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